[MSA-talk] Mineralanguage

Lewis, Dewi d.w.lewis at ucl.ac.uk
Thu May 1 10:05:53 EDT 2014


Clinoptilolite
Clionop-tilolite is what I usually hear said. But surely it should be clino-ptilolite and the p should be silent(ish) as someone I suspect a member of this list once told me (Guy?).
Discuss......!

____________________________________________________________________________

Dr. Dewi W. Lewis
Senior Lecturer and Admissions Tutor
Department of Chemistry                        Email: d.w.lewis at ucl.ac.uk<mailto:d.w.lewis at ucl.ac.uk>
University College London                       Phone: +44 020-7679-4779
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WWW: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/chemistry/staff/academic_pages/dewi_lewis


> -----Original Message-----
> From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org [mailto:msa-talk-
> bounces at minlists.org] On Behalf Of Robert Tracy
> Sent: 01 May 2014 14:53
> To: KEN Livi
> Cc: Matthew Kohn; MSA public List serve
> Subject: Re: [MSA-talk] Mineralanguage
> 
> That rule makes sense. But I would think that when a mineral name
> incorporates the proper name of a person, then the correct pronunciation of
> that person's name should be kept intact. So we should have WOL-las-ton-ite
> and SIL-li-man-ite.
> 
> Interesting that the Brits get the first one right and the second one wrong,
> and the Americans the reverse. Likely because of the nationalities of the
> honorees I assume. Two peoples divided by a common language and all that.
> 
> Dr. Robert Tracy
> Professor of Geosciences
> Associate Department Head
> Director, Museum of Geosciences
> Virginia Tech
> Blacksburg VA 24061-0420
> 540-231-5980
> 540-231-3386 (F)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 1, 2014, at 9:20 AM, KEN Livi <klivi at jhu.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Found a rule to explain this. At the website
> > http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/reading/ten-english-accent-rules/
> >
> > Rule #8 states: The primary accent is usually on the first syllable in three-
> syllable words, if that syllable is a root. For example, chár-ac-ter.
> >
> > and then…
> >
> > Rule #10: The primary accent is usually on the second  syllable in four-
> syllable words. For example, in-tél-li-gent.
> >
> > So when you take a three syllable word and make it four syllables, the
> accent will change from the first to the second syllable.
> >
> > It sounds right to change WOL-las-ton to owl-LAS-ton-ite. But is it right?
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On May 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, KEN Livi wrote:
> >
> >> Matt,
> >> This brings up one of the roots of a complication in the English language. I
> work with a MI-cro-scope every day, but I am a mi-CROS-co-pist and do mi-
> CROS-copy. There is a change in accent when a word is lengthened. I think
> this is coming into play when we make MIN-er-al names out of Min-er-AL-o-
> gists' names.
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> On May 1, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Matthew Kohn wrote:
> >>
> >>> I ran across this today, and couldn't remember if I already sent it to the
> list.
> >>>
> >>> Apologies if you've seen this before.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe apologies even if you haven't...
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Matt
> >>>
> >>> Mineralanguage.
> >>>
> >>> A few years ago, I enjoyed a thorough review from Randy Parrish on the
> geochronology of monazite. At the end, no one offered any questions, so I
> semi-facetiously asked him to settle a question that I’ve wondered about
> since I first learned of the mineral c. 20 years ago: “Randy – is it monazite
> (MAHN-uh-zite) or monazite (MOHN-uh-zite)?” To which he replied “Well,
> it’s like potato (puh-TAY-toh) and potato (puh-TAH-toh)…or… baddeleyite
> (BAD-uh-lee-ite) and baddelyite (buh-DEHL-ee-ite). You know, there was a
> man named Baddeley (BAD-uh-lee).”
> >>>
> >>> Exactly. The mineral baddeleyite was named after a man called Joseph
> Baddeley (BAD-uh-lee), not some other guy who might have pronounced his
> name buh-DEHL-ee. Don’t you think that if Joseph knew his name was being
> mispronounced, he would correct us? I certainly do, because that’s what I do
> every time someone pronounces my name as if it were spelled Kahn. I
> pronounce it like “cone,” and, no, I have no connection with Madeline or a
> French film festival. Similarly, there are minerals named after Benjamin
> Silliman and William Wollaston. No one would think of pronouncing the
> names of those venerable gentlemen sill-IH-muhn, or wuh-LAS-tuhn. So why
> do we pronounce the minerals that way? Is it because the cadence is a little
> nicer? I admit Wuh-LAS-ton-ITE does trip a little more pleasurably off my
> tongue than WOOL-uh-stuhn-ITE (the technically correct pronunciation). But
> no one mispronounces cummingtonite (CUH-ming-tuhn-ITE). Is that only
> because it sounds like two common English words stuck together? You know:
> “Are you cummingtonite?” “Why yes, of quartz I am.” I certainly hope that if
> one of my scientific heroes, Jane Selverstone, ever has a mineral named
> after her, future mineralogists will pronounce it “SEL-ver-STOHN-ite” and not
> “sel-VEHR-stuhn-ITE.”
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I know there are real regional differences in possible
> pronunciations, for example EK-lo-gite or EK-lo-jite. I agree those minor and
> charming differences make mineralogical discourse more interesting, just as
> different accents embellish our language. But if we know or can figure out
> how to pronounce the name of the person or place after whom a mineral is
> named, or the source of the word if it’s not a name, then I think we should
> try to pronounce the mineral at least approximately correctly.
> >>>
> >>> So, is it MAHN-uh-zite or MOHN-uh-zite? Well, it turns out the root is the
> Greek word μοναζειν (“monazein” meaning “to be alone” because monazite
> occurs as isolated crystals), or more generally μόνος (“monos” meaning
> “single”). It’s the same root used in our modern English words
> "monochromatic," “monastery,” “mononucleosis,” “monocle,” "monocline,"
> etc. And if you’re thinking “Yeah, but what about Mono (Moh-Noh) Lake,”
> that name derives from a Native American source, not Greek. So, probably
> the preferred English pronunciation is MAHN-uh-zite. Not that I expect
> anyone to change. But the next time you’re teaching mineralogy or Earth
> materials, maybe you’ll think about how pronunciations get passed along to
> the next generation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >> |_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|
> >> Kenneth JT Livi, PhD
> >> Director, The High-Resolution Analytical Electron Microbeam Facility
> >> of the Integrated Imaging Center Departments of Earth and Planetary
> >> Sciences and Biology Olin Hall
> >> 3400 N Charles Street
> >> Johns Hopkins University
> >> Baltimore, Maryland 21218 USA
> >> |  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  | :|  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |
> >> | | :|
> >>
> >
> > |_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|
> > Kenneth JT Livi, PhD
> > Director, The High-Resolution Analytical Electron Microbeam Facility
> > of the Integrated Imaging Center Departments of Earth and Planetary
> > Sciences and Biology Olin Hall
> > 3400 N Charles Street
> > Johns Hopkins University
> > Baltimore, Maryland 21218 USA
> > |  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  | :|  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  |
> > | :|
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > MSA-talk at minlists.org
> > http://lists.minlists.org/mailman/listinfo/msa-talk
> 
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