[MSA-talk] Mineralanguage

Philip Neuhoff neuhoff at ufl.edu
Thu May 1 10:22:24 EDT 2014


Dewi is correct about that one...clinoptilolite was thought to be a form 
of mordenite (with the now discredited name of ptilolite with a silent 
p) that was monoclinic instead of orthorhombic.  We now know that it 
shares a framework structure and solid solution with heulandite.  So 
yes, it should be pronounced kly-no-tye-lo-lite.

Hopefully if there is ever a dewilewisite we will pronounce it in the 
proper Welsh.

Phil


On 5/1/2014 8:05 AM, Lewis, Dewi wrote:
> Clinoptilolite
> Clionop-tilolite is what I usually hear said. But surely it should be clino-ptilolite and the p should be silent(ish) as someone I suspect a member of this list once told me (Guy?).
> Discuss......!
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>
> Dr. Dewi W. Lewis
> Senior Lecturer and Admissions Tutor
> Department of Chemistry                        Email: d.w.lewis at ucl.ac.uk<mailto:d.w.lewis at ucl.ac.uk>
> University College London                       Phone: +44 020-7679-4779
> 20 Gordon St.                                                Fax: +44 020-7679-7463
> London WC1H 0AJ, UK
> WWW: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/chemistry/staff/academic_pages/dewi_lewis
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org [mailto:msa-talk-
>> bounces at minlists.org] On Behalf Of Robert Tracy
>> Sent: 01 May 2014 14:53
>> To: KEN Livi
>> Cc: Matthew Kohn; MSA public List serve
>> Subject: Re: [MSA-talk] Mineralanguage
>>
>> That rule makes sense. But I would think that when a mineral name
>> incorporates the proper name of a person, then the correct pronunciation of
>> that person's name should be kept intact. So we should have WOL-las-ton-ite
>> and SIL-li-man-ite.
>>
>> Interesting that the Brits get the first one right and the second one wrong,
>> and the Americans the reverse. Likely because of the nationalities of the
>> honorees I assume. Two peoples divided by a common language and all that.
>>
>> Dr. Robert Tracy
>> Professor of Geosciences
>> Associate Department Head
>> Director, Museum of Geosciences
>> Virginia Tech
>> Blacksburg VA 24061-0420
>> 540-231-5980
>> 540-231-3386 (F)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2014, at 9:20 AM, KEN Livi <klivi at jhu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Found a rule to explain this. At the website
>>> http://penningtonpublishing.com/blog/reading/ten-english-accent-rules/
>>>
>>> Rule #8 states: The primary accent is usually on the first syllable in three-
>> syllable words, if that syllable is a root. For example, chár-ac-ter.
>>> and then…
>>>
>>> Rule #10: The primary accent is usually on the second  syllable in four-
>> syllable words. For example, in-tél-li-gent.
>>> So when you take a three syllable word and make it four syllables, the
>> accent will change from the first to the second syllable.
>>> It sounds right to change WOL-las-ton to owl-LAS-ton-ite. But is it right?
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, KEN Livi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Matt,
>>>> This brings up one of the roots of a complication in the English language. I
>> work with a MI-cro-scope every day, but I am a mi-CROS-co-pist and do mi-
>> CROS-copy. There is a change in accent when a word is lengthened. I think
>> this is coming into play when we make MIN-er-al names out of Min-er-AL-o-
>> gists' names.
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>> On May 1, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Matthew Kohn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I ran across this today, and couldn't remember if I already sent it to the
>> list.
>>>>> Apologies if you've seen this before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe apologies even if you haven't...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> Mineralanguage.
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years ago, I enjoyed a thorough review from Randy Parrish on the
>> geochronology of monazite. At the end, no one offered any questions, so I
>> semi-facetiously asked him to settle a question that I’ve wondered about
>> since I first learned of the mineral c. 20 years ago: “Randy – is it monazite
>> (MAHN-uh-zite) or monazite (MOHN-uh-zite)?” To which he replied “Well,
>> it’s like potato (puh-TAY-toh) and potato (puh-TAH-toh)…or… baddeleyite
>> (BAD-uh-lee-ite) and baddelyite (buh-DEHL-ee-ite). You know, there was a
>> man named Baddeley (BAD-uh-lee).”
>>>>> Exactly. The mineral baddeleyite was named after a man called Joseph
>> Baddeley (BAD-uh-lee), not some other guy who might have pronounced his
>> name buh-DEHL-ee. Don’t you think that if Joseph knew his name was being
>> mispronounced, he would correct us? I certainly do, because that’s what I do
>> every time someone pronounces my name as if it were spelled Kahn. I
>> pronounce it like “cone,” and, no, I have no connection with Madeline or a
>> French film festival. Similarly, there are minerals named after Benjamin
>> Silliman and William Wollaston. No one would think of pronouncing the
>> names of those venerable gentlemen sill-IH-muhn, or wuh-LAS-tuhn. So why
>> do we pronounce the minerals that way? Is it because the cadence is a little
>> nicer? I admit Wuh-LAS-ton-ITE does trip a little more pleasurably off my
>> tongue than WOOL-uh-stuhn-ITE (the technically correct pronunciation). But
>> no one mispronounces cummingtonite (CUH-ming-tuhn-ITE). Is that only
>> because it sounds like two common English words stuck together? You know:
>> “Are you cummingtonite?” “Why yes, of quartz I am.” I certainly hope that if
>> one of my scientific heroes, Jane Selverstone, ever has a mineral named
>> after her, future mineralogists will pronounce it “SEL-ver-STOHN-ite” and not
>> “sel-VEHR-stuhn-ITE.”
>>>>> Yes, I know there are real regional differences in possible
>> pronunciations, for example EK-lo-gite or EK-lo-jite. I agree those minor and
>> charming differences make mineralogical discourse more interesting, just as
>> different accents embellish our language. But if we know or can figure out
>> how to pronounce the name of the person or place after whom a mineral is
>> named, or the source of the word if it’s not a name, then I think we should
>> try to pronounce the mineral at least approximately correctly.
>>>>> So, is it MAHN-uh-zite or MOHN-uh-zite? Well, it turns out the root is the
>> Greek word μοναζειν (“monazein” meaning “to be alone” because monazite
>> occurs as isolated crystals), or more generally μόνος (“monos” meaning
>> “single”). It’s the same root used in our modern English words
>> "monochromatic," “monastery,” “mononucleosis,” “monocle,” "monocline,"
>> etc. And if you’re thinking “Yeah, but what about Mono (Moh-Noh) Lake,”
>> that name derives from a Native American source, not Greek. So, probably
>> the preferred English pronunciation is MAHN-uh-zite. Not that I expect
>> anyone to change. But the next time you’re teaching mineralogy or Earth
>> materials, maybe you’ll think about how pronunciations get passed along to
>> the next generation.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> MSA-talk mailing list
>>>>> MSA-talk at minlists.org
>>>>> http://lists.minlists.org/mailman/listinfo/msa-talk
>>>> |_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|
>>>> Kenneth JT Livi, PhD
>>>> Director, The High-Resolution Analytical Electron Microbeam Facility
>>>> of the Integrated Imaging Center Departments of Earth and Planetary
>>>> Sciences and Biology Olin Hall
>>>> 3400 N Charles Street
>>>> Johns Hopkins University
>>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21218 USA
>>>> |  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  | :|  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |
>>>> | | :|
>>>>
>>> |_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|_|"|_|"|_|"|_|_|
>>> Kenneth JT Livi, PhD
>>> Director, The High-Resolution Analytical Electron Microbeam Facility
>>> of the Integrated Imaging Center Departments of Earth and Planetary
>>> Sciences and Biology Olin Hall
>>> 3400 N Charles Street
>>> Johns Hopkins University
>>> Baltimore, Maryland 21218 USA
>>> |  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  | :|  |  | .|  | .|  | .|  | .|  |  |
>>> | :|
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MSA-talk mailing list
>>> MSA-talk at minlists.org
>>> http://lists.minlists.org/mailman/listinfo/msa-talk
>> _______________________________________________
>> MSA-talk mailing list
>> MSA-talk at minlists.org
>> http://lists.minlists.org/mailman/listinfo/msa-talk
> _______________________________________________
> MSA-talk mailing list
> MSA-talk at minlists.org
> http://lists.minlists.org/mailman/listinfo/msa-talk


-- 
Philip S. Neuhoff, Ph.D.
neuhoff at ufl.edu
208-939-4508



More information about the MSA-talk mailing list