[MSA-talk] Mineral name pronounciation

Anthony Kampf akampf at nhm.org
Sat May 3 18:19:39 EDT 2014


From 1998 to 2006 we produced a CD/DVD called the Photo-Atlas of Minerals, which had audio pronunciations of mineral names, mostly by Forrest Cureton. I can’t guarantee that every one is correct, but we tried. For more than a decade, those pronunciations have been available online at www.webmineral.com<http://www.webmineral.com>.

By the way, for those who noticed the name “zzyzxite” in Rik’s message, we provided the correct IPA pronunciation for this name (/ˈzaɪ zɪks aɪt/) in our new mineral proposal to the CNMNC; however, the name was not approved. The approved name for this mineral is now mojaveite (/moʊˈhɑvi aɪt/) – and, yes, I know that mohavite is an old name for tincalconite.

Tony
______________________________________________
Anthony R. Kampf, Ph.D.
Curator Emeritus, Mineral Sciences
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd. , Los Angeles , CA 90007
Phone: 213-763-3328; Fax: 213-749-4107
Email: akampf at nhm.org<mailto:akampf at nhm.org>
______________________________________________


From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org [mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org] On Behalf Of Rik Dillen
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 2:32 PM
To: MSA-talk at minlists.org
Subject: [MSA-talk] Mineral name pronounciation

My 2 (euro-)cents :

Glenn wrote:
It would seem to me that when a mineral is named the authorized pronunciation should be given as well.  Also, the IMA should rule on the official pronunciation of existing names.

>>>>> I suppose this statement is ment for the pronunciation in English. But even with that restriction, native English speakers will not always be able to pronounce some foreign names correctly, especially if they are integrated in mineral names.
Not many native English speakers will be able to pronounce "metavandendreisscheite" correctly, or "Högbomite".... or even just the French "r" in the very simple mineral name "curite".
IMHO it makes no sense to have to know the whole history of a mineral name AND a solid knowledge of the language of the name after which it has been named, to be able to pronounce the name "correctly".
It is an interesting (and amusing) discussion, but on a worldwide scale there is no solution for this question (which I deliberately do not call "a problem").

BTW in Dutch we have a complete, legal listing of the correct spelling of all words (available on the WWW : http://woordenlijst.org/).
In this list however only a few very common mineral names occur, such as ametist (amethyst), bariet (baryte or barite), pyriet (pyrite).
But e.g. zzyzxite (yes, that exists - since recently - I had to look up zzyzx in Wikipedia to find out how that can be pronounced!), clino-ferro-ferri-holmquistite or magnesio-fluoro-arfvedsonite are subject to own interpretation; to translate into Dutch just replace -ite by -iet :>)
I just try to stick as close as possible to the English version of each mineral name (as in the Glossary, now ed. 2014). In Dutch we would have the tendency to write "fosfohedyfaan" instead of "phosphohedyphaan", where the latter is closer to the English. I normally use the latter spelling. The same goes for sfaleriet -> sphaleriet.

And that brings me to a last case : if everyone wants to concentrate on pronunciation of mineral names in English : even the name "Laurionite" as such is wrong.
The town of Λαύριον (I hope this - in Greek characters - comes through) is pronounced "Lavrion", as the Greek "u" (upsilon) before a "ρ" (rho) is pronounced as "v".
So this name should be pronounced "lavrionite" instead of "laurionite". As a proof I send a photo (attached) of the plate at the entrance of the village of Lavrion, that I took in 1978.

The first word I learned my daughter (in the period that she was trying to say "mama") was "tyuyamunite" :>))

Greetings,

Rik DILLEN
E-mail rik.dillen at skynet.be<mailto:rik.dillen at skynet.be>
Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen

MINERANT 2014 - 10-11 May 2014
Antwerp Expo - Antwerpen - Belgium
www.minerant.org<http://www.minerant.org>

From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org<mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org> [mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Waychunas
Sent: Friday, 02 May, 2014 17:38
To: Ray Binns
Cc: MSA-Talk at lists. minsocam. org
Subject: Re: [MSA-talk] Mineral name pronounciation

Ray:
It would seem to me that when a mineral is named the authorized pronunciation should be given as well.  Also, the IMA should rule on the official pronunciation of existing names.  Of course in the USA we seem to be moving to texting rather than actually talking to one another, and hence maybe this is all moot.
Glenn

On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Ray Binns <entex at acenet.com.au<mailto:entex at acenet.com.au>> wrote:
It is said that the authoritative pronunciation of a language is that used where the largest number of speakers live. In which case Mumbai wins. So let’s ask our Indian colleagues to umpire this argument!
Ray Binns

From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org<mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org> [mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org<mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org>] On Behalf Of Anthony Kampf
Sent: Friday, 2 May 2014 4:29 PM
To: Alfredo Petrov
Cc: MSA-Talk at lists. minsocam. org
Subject: Re: [MSA-talk] Mineral name pronounciation

Unless, of course, you are playing Scrabble competitively.
Tony
______________________________________________
Anthony R. Kampf, Ph.D.
Curator Emeritus, Mineral Sciences
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd. , Los Angeles , CA 90007
Phone: 213-763-3328<tel:213-763-3328>; Fax: 213-749-4107<tel:213-749-4107>
Email: akampf at nhm.org<mailto:akampf at nhm.org>
______________________________________________

From: msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org<mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org> [mailto:msa-talk-bounces at minlists.org] On Behalf Of Alfredo Petrov
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 11:20 PM
Cc: MSA-Talk at lists. minsocam. org
Subject: Re: [MSA-talk] Mineral name pronounciation

Other languages (like french, spanish, japanese, icelandic...) have official bodies entrusted with policing "correctness". English does not, so it is in a sense an anarchy. Even authorities like the Oxford english dictionary only claim to reflect common usage, not "correctness". So no one has the right to tell anyone else that their version of english is "wrong". "Uncommonly used", perhaps, but not "wrong".

On 2 May 2014 15:09, <gregor at unisi.it<mailto:gregor at unisi.it>> wrote:
hi wallace and all,
the "lack of standardization" is restricted in phonetic writing systems, but english spelling is half the way to kanji/hanzi, as demonstrated by the famous example (attributed to B Shaw) that /ghoti/ is just an alternative spelling for /fish/,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti
The nice thing is that you never know where you actually are between IPA and kanji. In contrast to kanji/hanzi writers, who don't have an option: once the word has been transliterated/transiconed, it has to be pronounced the same way as its substitutes are, so /symbolforBEE-symbolforYOUNG-symbolforCAR/ will correctly produce /bianca/ (italian girls' name meaning 'white').
I'd like to hear some of our asian colleagues if I am right that english might be our last refuge for linguistic freedom?
Miguel

  This is one of the things you have to accept--there is a general lack of standardization in (American)English. We have done so  and will continue to adopt words from other languages, sometimes Anglicizing the word, sometimes not. In addition, note our many regional variations in the ways we use and modify the language. Live with it.
Wallace Kleck

--
Miguel Gregorkiewitz
Dip Scienze Fisiche, della Terra e dell'Ambiente, Università
via Laterina 8, I-53100 Siena, Europe
fon +39'0577'233810 fax 233938
email gregor at unisi.it<mailto:gregor at unisi.it>
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Glenn Waychunas

Senior Scientist
Earth Sciences Division      Geochemistry Department
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory  MS 74-316C
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GAWaychunas at lbl.gov<mailto:GAWaychunas at lbl.gov>
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